Evangelical and Fundamentalist Churches are losing the Youth Members

Recent articles about the vast amount of younger members leaving the evangelical/fundamentalist churches in amazing numbers.

Ken Ham, a evangelical creationist spends a great deal of time whining about how he is unable to convince people that his belief in creationism should be theirs and simply can't understand that his religious beliefs are not science. Ham has difficulty in grasping the simple fact that people no longer blindly accept his stupid and very ignorant position that has already been tested on every possible level and even lost in a Court of Law with the leading "scientists" of his ilk having ample time to put forth every argument they could and lost.

Creationism is not science, his brand of religion goes against the very teachings of the original ideology and even prevents and prohibits it's members from exercising original thinking that contradicts his ideology. In fact one needs only to argue a point with one like Ham and once that person is seeming to come around to logic and actual facts another will cquickly jump in and cause the mind control buzz words to make them snap back into the brainwashed blankness that permeates the evangelical/fundamentalist brand of so-called religion.

No wonder people and not just the young have no use for it, with politicians violating core ideology while proclaiming that others must adhere showing everyone it is do as I say , not as I do mentality among even the most recognized membership. The utter ignorance and stupidity is so blatant that it no longer needs anyone to point it out but for anyone to just watch and listen as it will only be a short time until examples from the fundamental/evangelical movement gives one and most likely several. The sad part of it is that they will do so and most likely be unaware they did, then continue claiming to be victims for people alerting them to their actions.

When will this group finally be investigated to protect the children form abuse and the mental anguish that is demonstrated so often by the examples paraded across the tv screen with mothers hacking their kids to pieces to save them from perceived demons and devils, to sunday school teachers who drug, molest, rape and kill children then pretend that it was ordained by their god.

The actions of those people are not of Christianity, nor are they even close or remotely connected to anything that was, is or will be True Christianity. The movement has imploded, it is a disaster, it is resorted fascist terrorism and will continue until the cult behavior is investigated and determined to be not religious but simply the next phase of fascism and thereby able to be stopped, stopped via only legal methods, no violence, no headlines, just simply provide the help these people need and should be given to help them to recover from this bad reliance upon the fascist agenda and not religion.

TFR

The Truth about the Bible

It is well passed time for someone to point out the truth about the Bible and to put an end to this evangelical/fundamentalist propaganda that it is the incontravertible word of God.

First of all there are hundreds of versions of the book commonly called the Bible and not one single version is the authoritative text, nor can any group make valid claims that it is.

There are far too many contradictions in each of the various texts to reconcile the differences and to make any claims that it is something beyond a book that may be based upon historical events and yet it has never been nor will it ever be more than an historical novel containing morality stories written by men to record the stories in an attempt to preserve the cultural myths of the people it stemmed from originally. Putting out a different version or even interpretation and making assertions that one person said something when there is absolutely no proof from the secular world that proves existence of an individual called "Jesus" or that he ever said a single word if, indeed he did exist and since not one shred of evidence for valid secular sources exist that speaks to the claimed miracles and other supernatural events that should exist if the events actually happened.

The ONLY evidence that can be looked at has already been proved to be simply inserted by religious zealots who wanted to somehow validate their beliefs which did one thing and that was to help preserve the writings of Josephus, but now have been shown to be forgeries and therefore leaving nothing for those who create revisionist historical accounts can now stop since they have nothing and to continue is a violation of the very Commandments they tout daily for the rest of America to follow.

It is well past time for Americans to listen to politicians who violate the law, and the codes of their claimed faiths to remain in office and they especially should be removed immediately to prove that those belonging to the fundie ideology actually mean what they claim and to stop giving lip service alone to keep those violators in power as it only serves to illustrate and demonstrate to everyone that their rules have no merit nor need to be abided by.

The shear numbers of religious sites alone should illustrate to everyone that this is nothing more than a group determined to force conversion on the world and they are after Americans via unconstitutional laws, hate crimes and complete reluctance and blockage of every possible effort to restore America to the Constitutional Secular Country it was intended to be and not the fascist state that the remaining members of the fundies strive to force upon us.

It certainly is well past time to allow this type of fascist takeover to continue. Remember to vote for candidates who are NOT a follower of the fundamentalist/evangelical organizations. Remember that your Civil Rights are always at stake and to only vote in those who will uphold them. Remember to allow these fascists to continue and remain silent is to enable them to hold on and remain a threat to your rights, your beliefs and that the people of Germany were guilty of sitting by when the same thing happened in Germany and allowed the fascist there to take control, don't let the fascists fundies do that here.

TFR

The Matthew Sheppard Hate Crimes Bill

Here is the simple breakdown of the above Act:

The Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

The Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act (LLEHCPA) gives the Justice Department the power to investigate and prosecute bias motivated violence by providing the Department with jurisdiction over crimes of violence where the perpetrator has selected the victim because of the person's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability.

The LLEHCPA provides the Justice Department with the ability to aid state and local jurisdictions either by lending assistance or, where local authorities are unwilling or unable, by taking the lead in investigations and prosecutions of violent crime resulting in death or serious bodily injury that were motivated by bias. The LLEHCPA also makes grants available to state and local communities to combat violent crimes committed by juveniles, train law enforcement officers, or to assist in state and local investigations and prosecutions of bias motivated crimes.
Bias Motivated Violent Crime Affects an Entire Community.

A hate crime occurs when the perpetrator of the crime intentionally selects the victim because of who the victim is. While violent hate crimes are a widespread and serious problem in our nation, it is not the frequency or number of violent hate crimes alone, that distinguish these acts of violence from other types of crime. A random act of violence resulting in injury or even death is a tragic event that devastates the lives of the victim and their family, but the intentional selection and beating or murder of an individual because of who they are terrorizes an entire community and sometimes the nation. For example; a 2006, Harris Interactive poll found that 64 percent of gays and lesbians are concerned about being the victim of a bias-motivated crime.

Bias Motivated Violent Crime is a Pervasive Community Problem. Evidence indicates that hate crimes are underreported; however, statistics show that since 1991 over 100,000 hate crime offenses have been reported to the FBI, with 7,163 reported in 2005, the FBI’s most recent reporting period. Violent crimes based on race-related bias were by far the most common, representing 54.7 percent of all offenses for 2005. Violent crimes based on religion represented 17.1 percent and ethnicity/national origin, 13.2 percent. Violent crimes based on sexual orientation constituted 14.2 percent of all hate crimes in 2005, with 1,017 reported for the year. The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs (NCAVP), a non-profit organization that tracks bias incidents against gay, The Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act
1640 Rhode Island Avenue, NW Washington, D.C. 20036 web: www.hrc.org
phone: 202/628-4160 fax: 202/347-5323

I/Legal/Factory/Hate Crimes/one pager for MOC LLEHCPA 1.10.07.
Created: January 10, 2007. lesbian, bisexual and transgender people, reported 1,985 incidents for 2005 from only 13 jurisdictions, compared to the 12,417 agencies reporting to the FBI in 2005. The LLEHCPA Gives Local Law Enforcement the Tools to Combat Violent Bias Motivated
Crime. The importance of the LLEHCPA is that it provides a backstop to state and local law enforcement by allowing a federal prosecution if – and only if – it is necessary to achieve an effective, just result, and to permit federal authorities to assist in investigations. Federal support, in the form of grants for training or through direct assistance will ensure all bias motivated violence is adequately investigated and prosecuted, while at the same time ensuring state and local authorities are not overburdened. Support for this legislation is overwhelming.
The bill is endorsed by notable individuals and over 175 law enforcement, civil rights, civic and
religious organizations, including: President George H.W. Bush’s Attorney General Dick
Thornburgh; National Sheriffs’ Association; International Association of Chiefs of Police; U.S.
Conference of Mayors; Presbyterian Church; Episcopal Church; and the Parent’s Network on
Disabilities. Poll after poll continues to show that the American public supports hate crimes
legislation inclusive of sexual orientation, including a Kaiser Family Foundation poll released in
November 2001 showing 73 percent of Americans supporting hate crimes legislation that includes sexual orientation. Legislative status of the LLEHCPA
Both the Senate and House have voted in favor of legislation to combat bias motivated violence in the prior Congresses. Most recently in the 109th Congress, the House of Representative approved its hate crimes bill as an amendment on a bipartisan vote of 223 to 199. House and Senate votes were held in the 106th and 108th Congress. In the 108th Congress, the Senate passed the measure by an overwhelming vote of 65-33, with 18 Senate Republicans voting yes, and the House approved it on a bipartisan vote of 213-186, with 31 Republicans voting yes.

From the above breakdown it isn't difficult to see the need for this Act to be passed in both houses of Congress and to be signed into law immediately. Since the fundamentalist/evangelical followers are so against this then it must mean it will be effective to prevent further hate crimes against the LGBT community or they wouldn't be so "violently opposed to prevent it passage"

TFR

England Makes Fundies Treat LGBT Community with Equality

The following article is found at this link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5357247/Law-will-force-churches-to-employ-gay-staff.html

England has dealt with the rampant discrimination ongoing in churches against the LBGT community. If America were to take a similar step the LGBT discrimination issue would be further reduced and thus enable those promoting the hate to finally have to interact with people and it would assist them to adapt to acceptance of the LGBT community.

Churches will be banned from turning down gay job applicants on the grounds of their sexuality under new anti-discrimination laws, a Government minister said.

By Matthew Moore -Published: 7:00AM BST 21 May 2009

Religious groups are to be forced to accept homosexual youth workers, secretaries and other staff, even if their faith holds same-sex relationships to be sinful.

Christian organisations fear that the tightened legislation, which is due to come into force next year, will undermine the integrity of churches and dilute their moral message.

It comes amid growing concern that Christians are being unfairly targeted by discrimination laws, following a number of high-profile cases of courts finding against believers who stand up for their faith.

Religious leaders had hoped to lobby for exemptions to the Equality Bill but Maria Eagle, the deputy equalities minister, has now indicated that it will cover almost all church employees.

"The circumstances in which religious institutions can practice anything less than full equality are few and far between," she told delegates at the Faith, Homophobia, Transphobia, & Human Rights conference in London.

"While the state would not intervene in narrowly ritual or doctrinal matters within faith groups, these communities cannot claim that everything they run is outside the scope of anti-discrimination law.

"Members of faith groups have a role in making the argument in their own communities for greater LGBT acceptance, but in the meantime the state has a duty to protect people from unfair treatment."

Under existing equalities legislation, any roles deemed to be necessary "for the purposes of an organised religion" are excluded from gay rights protection.

But the Equality Bill, which is currently passing through parliament, for the first time defines this as applying only to those who lead the liturgy or spend the majority of the time teaching doctrine - essentially just ministers, bishops and their equivalents in other faiths.

A spokesman for the Christian Institute, a religious charity, said that many churchgoers had deep concerns about how the bill would be enforced and accused politicians of hypocrisy.

"It would be absurd to pass a law demanding that the Labour Party employ card-carrying Conservative members, but that is effectively what churches are being told to do. We just want the same exceptions as political parties," he said.

"Christians are sick to the back teeth of equality and diversity laws that put them to the back of the queue. We are quite prepared to accept that people will take a different view to use on moral and ethical questions, but that should not mean we have to withdraw from public life."

Recent cases including the nurse suspended for offering to pray for a patient and the British Airways worker sent home for wearing a visible cross have left many believers afraid to go public with their faith at work.

Neil Addison, a Roman Catholic barrister and expert on religious discrimination law, said that the new legislation would leave churches powerless to defend the fabric of their organisation.

"This is a threat to religious identity. What we are losing is the right for organisations to make free choices," he said.

A spokesman for the Church of England said that while it supports the broad objectives of the Bill it "retains some concerns about the practical application of some specific aspects".

The Equality Bill, which was introduced to the Commons by Harriet Harman, the Minister for Women and Equality, will also strengthen laws against gender, age and disability discrimination.

A Government Equalities Office spokesman said: "The Equality Bill will not force a church to accept someone as a priest regardless of their sexual orientation or gender.

"Churches, synagogues, mosques and others will continue to have the freedom to choose who they employ in jobs which promote their religion. But where they provide services to the public they will have to treat everyone fairly.

Related Articles

• Unions lose court plea over gays and church jobs

• Euro rules force Church bodies to employ atheists

• Employers face new discrimination headache

• Gay man wins Church discrimination case

• Gay youth worker accuses bishop of discrimination after failing to get job

Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism are in their Death throes

The amount of people leaving behind evangelical and fundamental churches is a clear sign that Christianity is recovering in America and the rest of the world. People are waking up to their mind controlling and programming to control the attendees and the people aren't falling for this rhetoric any longer.

This is great news to read about the whining and complaining to the serious drop in numbers of members who are leaving them behind to wallow in their own vile bile that had people scared to think for themselves.

True Christianity is recovering but not as fast as needed and all one has to do to realize the failure of evangelicalism and fundamentalism is being exposed is to follow this blog and to simply read the amount of articles and the efforts by those involved in the fascist organizations pretending to be Christian. The evangelicals and fundies aren't Christian and never were they were nothing more than a group of fascists pretending to be so to convert America and the world to come under their control so they would dictate to everyone and no one would be able to exist with their mark of the beast.

They say one thing and then do the opposite, just watch the politicians like Ensign and others who scream at others for doing the very same thing they are caught doing and instead of being removed from a position of power they are cheered by the zombies under the brain washed programming they get under the fundie regime.

People have awakened to the problem, the solution is to leave these groups ASAP and let them know why that you won't support fascism any longer.
TFR

Judicial Activisim

Each time I hear or read about yet another claim of "Judicial Activisim", I have to laugh as Judges interpret the law, not legislate. This seems to be a very difficult concept for fundamentalists/evangelicals to grasp in contrast to anyone else who doesn't have any problem with the concept.

The whining is pretty much along the ideology lines for fundies since they either failed in civics or skipped class those days when the three branches of government and the separation of powers were taught to the students in attendance.
During that class they would have learned what I wrote in the first sentence and that would alleviate the need to complain about something they tried to force upon the citizens of their state and stopped. it would be an exceptional day if the court would simply say "this law is nothing but religious ideology and it is Unconstitutional, so, all you fundies and evangelicalistas stop trying to convert everyone". Yes it would be a very great day to finally get that handeddown and then they would be made to stop with their constant stupidity.

Far too often we see the cry of the judges are ruling outside their areas, they went too far, etc.. When it is nothing more than another upset fundie whining that their ridiculous ideology based argument was tossed out as it had no possible merit or validity before the court to begin with.

On forums posts that prove their ideology based rhetoric is incorrect, ill conceived or just plain wrong often results with any responses that help point this out or even any response to their rhetoric is also vunerable to deletion. It can almost be guarranteed that any posts that list accurate historical facts about the Bible, Jesus, Apostles, etc., is most asuredly doomed to deletion if it mentions that they were men, written after the events happened, ( which it would have to be if it talks about the event in past tense!) and/or happens to contain any reference to reality based connections and how the historical accuracy of the writers were off.

There is of course much more to cover on this but for now this will do nicely.

TFR

States Rights and the Religious Connection

Alockslee »

Suddenly we have a whole slew of evangelicals becoming Constitutional scholars, unfortunately they don't comprehend nor understand their interpretations and get it wrong.

The recent movement and call for States rights have folks like Texas Governor calling for treasonous action of Succession and the Civil War was fought and those Successionist States LOST. This is nothing more than another Fundamentalist/Evangelical movement to force religion under the guise of a political stance.

The reason the US is experiencing the economic collapse is due to the last 8 years under Bush and the fundie controlled Congress. The period saw deregulation and complete disregard for the rights of anyone who wasn't of the same religion as those in power. Now the remaining folks continue to prevent the changes necessary to fix what was done by the Evil Agent Evangelical Bush and his cronies.

Torturing people didn't get it done, nor will the continuing push for forced conversion by the remaining pulpit puppets in Washington. Those during the Bush era tried to force religion down Americans throats and the American population didn't swallow it, in fact they vomited it back on them and now the religious legislators stand covered in the vile bile they heaped out and now have to wear, exposed for their actions.

Face it separation of church and state is how this country became great and not by forced compliance with religious hate.

It is well past the time where Americans should have acted to remove these denizens of the fascist fundie groups and finally rid this country of them by vote. There needs to be a return to truth in broadcasting since that will compel the fundies to report the whole story and not get away with spinning it to their perverted ideology via Glen Beck, Bill OReilly and Sean Hanity on Fixed Fox News!

Until Americans take responsibility for making the religious right comply with telling the truth there won't be any and those on Capitol Hill will continue to thwart the efforts to return us to solvency.

Remember you can't expect mind controlled fundies to act responsibly since they only follow th e lemming approach of what the pulpit puppet in their local fascist gathering is telling them to do.

TFR

A question to fundies on Divorce

Here is a quote to ponder and I would like all those who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus to justify how, when the topic of divorce

is clearly explained in direct,and specific terms from statements attributed to have been spoken by Jesus, that his instructions are ignored!

"In Matthew 19:4b-9, Jesus said:

"Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh.

Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. They said to Him, ‘Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?’ He said to them, ‘Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wife, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits

adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

Jesus’ disciples were nervous at this teaching. In fact, since Jesus made divorce much more difficult to attain than Moses did, they wondered aloud if marriage was such a good thing after all (“If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry."

Matthew 19:10). Like many people today, the disciples thought the fidelity and permanence taught by Jesus might be too difficult for anyone to follow. "

So why after this is so specific and detailed do Christians. especially those Fundamentalists/Evangelicals who constantly want to force everyone to believe as they do, practice as they do and continue to proselytize to everyone NOT ADHERE to this command?

The problem is quite obvious, those who make claims simply disregard what they want and then apply to everyone else what they happen to find useful to bolster their positions. There is absolutely no desire to conform to the teachings of Jesus when it prevents a
fundamentalist/evangelical from breaking the rules of the Bible and especially Jesus whom they will always claim to follow and yet only wind up paying lip service whenever when they need to avoid the command.


TFR

Worthless Wisdom from the Woodpulp Worshippers

It is past time where the media coverage of the worthless wisdom from the wood pulp Worshippers need to be heard even more so listened to by America!

We need to call those who spread their ideology through the constant whines and complaints calling for people to dialog with them then ignore the questions asking them for their proof they even warrant considering as valid. Have you noticed that whenever you ask one of the evangelicalistas a question as to their reasons about an issue they simply resort to questioning your intent or trying to turn it around to questioning you on an unrelated line which tangentially changes the discourse to a completely different area with nothing to do with the original issue that begun the discussion?

It never fails, they just run and dodge every time that anyone even bothers to try to engage in intelligent discourse. All the while they continue to claim no one listens to them or takes them seriously. Well to all the fundies and evangelicalistas..... I am asking and after several years still waiting for you to come clean. So how about it? Can any of you self proclaimed righteous revisionists actually bring anything forward to answer the questions I and many others have asked and been asking since you reared you loud mouths and even uglier political agendas?

I doubt any of them will have the guts to respond much less answer on any forum this request, but I keep trying and others will as well, but as any thinking person not under their mind control knows they don't have nor did they ever have answers, only their ideology that is neither True Christianity or believeable at best.

TFR

Fundies just don't Understand that they Can't Force their Beliefs on anyone Else

Here is another post where I didn't have enough room to finish or cover my points so I am posting it here so they can be read in their entirety.

1Jfreak »Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:03 pm
Interesting how all the people that sem to disagree with Mr Colson, continue to point out his flaws...his past sins especially. Yet they themselves are so quick to tell us Christians "not to judge". Hypocritical to say the least. "PHOTCHE" - I think you have something here. During the original story regarding "e-harmony" the homosexual man in question, new of, and had been to many sites dealing with finding same-sex partners. He fought against E-harmony out of spite. And after winning, made the staement that he probably won't use the new site that E-Harmony has to build. Disgusting. So I think us heteros should find those same-sex sites and see how far our lawsuits takes us. Somethings tells me we would lose quickly and often.
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In response: Chuck Colson as a past member of the Bar, read ex-lawyer should be able to get the correct interpretation of the Constitution. Since he chooses to play to the fundie/evangelical band it it obvious he either is disregarding the truth or he has had a lobotomy removing the portion of his remaining brain that allows analytical thinking and memory.

As for the reason the suit against eHarmony was filed and won was due to the inherent discrimination in the website. The website does business in the 50 States so it must adhere to the laws of the land under which it agreed to follow when it incorporated. Since you might be unfamiliar with Corporation Law it follows you wouldn't necessarily understand they are bound by the same laws of non discrimination as any other business is.

It isn't that difficult to grasp if you simply stop long enough and listen to those who know about the subject and actually listen for change instead of ignoring reality and the rest of the thinking world. That isn't meant to mean anything beyond a wake up call to those readers who seem to think that the laws of this country somehow are subjugated to your religious ideology and that you and those like you have the right to force compliance to your beliefs. That is not, never was and never will be the case. The backwardness that permeates the sect you make allegiance to should be brought into the 21st Century and realize that the same methodology was tried by the Roman Catholic Church and failed miserably and they lost after trying to force and even killed hundreds of thousands to compel them to convert without success.

One major problem with fundies/evangelicalistas is they can't grasp the reality that they aren't endowed with anything to enable the forced compliance with their religious ideology. They just don't understand that you may not force, through passage of law or by other means the populace of this country of America to practice their religion. It isn't even followed by those claiming to belong to it!

Take Congressman Ensign who is a member of Promise Keepers, that so-called Christian group where the men agree to abide by certain promises, one of which is fidelity. Well the hypocrite was the one who yelled for Clinton to be Impeached and to resign, he of course was after others for such behavior and now the hypocrite is trying to claim he only admitted to the affair due to blackmail and extortion. Please! Why is everytime and there are plenty of examples these self righteous fools get caught literally with their pants down and it seems they have no problem dropping them for women and MEN, that they always try to weasel out of it? It is as if they think that they can admit to it and then suddenly the blame is laid somewhere else and all is forgotten. That is so ridiculous and I only hope that Cheney and Bush are finally investigated for their past acts, charged and convicted. There has to be an legitimate legal closure to the autrocites committed by those and and the rest of these hypocrites. Perhaps the American people will finally grow sick of it enough to actually act to remove those in office and to vote others in to replace the remaining idiots and fools.


TFR

A response to my posts on Chuck (convicted Felon) Colson

A poster on The Christian Post responded to my earlier posts and there simply wasn't enough space to quote him completely and then respond to him so I am giving it here:

davimcg »Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:02 pm
Alockslee, Your reading of the First Amendment is spot on. The text's stated purpose is to prevent the federal government, Congress, from creating "any law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . . ." However, the U.S. Supreme Court has incorporated the protections of the First Amendment to apply to the states as well. Thus, according to the U.S. Supreme Court (but not the actual text of the First Amendment) every state must abide by the protections of the First Amendment. Therefore, your declaration that the First Amendment only restricts the "FEDERAL" government is incorrect, at least according to current Supreme Court jurisprudence.

Also, your postings about how have Mr. Colson's rights been infringed upon leads me to believe you did not read his commentary very carefully. The infringement he writes about is the State of New Jersey forcing eHarmony to provide a dating service for homosexuals. That's a state forcing an organization to act in opposition to its sincerely held religious beliefs. Thus, New Jersey has infringed upon eHarmony's free exercise of religion and, therefore, has violated eHarmony's First Amendment protections. And, if you did not know, First Amendment protections are accorded to organizations not just individuals.

Finally, for further reference, the "Equal Protection Clause" is in the Fourteenth Amendment, not the First.
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My response :


In response: Please be kind enough to point out where I said the Equal Protection Clause was part of the 1st Amendment?

I never said that it was. Furthermore it appears that you have introduced something I did not say or covered due to lack of space in my earlier postings, no where did I discuss eHarmony or it's particular corporate rights under the application extended via the case law.

But since you brought it up we could if space allowed go into the entity doing business in the US called eHarmony and the laws that allow it to be treated in some cases as an individual, however a corporation has rights not extended to individuals as do individuals possess certain civil rights not available to corporations.

My post dealt strictly with Chuck Colson the convicted felon and Nixon operative who has now gone into a captive audience and different type of control entity commonly referred to as the Prison Ministry con.

Colson and those with him are involved in perpetrating yet another sham on prisoners who aren't free to avoid or in some cases forced to accept his organization's "work" under the guise of a religious premise.

I appreciate that you took the time to respond but please in the future try to avoid inventing and injecting incorrect and inaccuracies into what I wrote and stick to what I actually did write.

Once again thanks for responding and hope that others here take the time to review the sections you bring up as those sections as well are important to understand when persons like Chuck Colson (convicted felon) are given space to spread their brand of hatred.

http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ (for the full story)

Chuck Colson, runs the Prison Ministries website and is best known for his Felony conviction, Watergate and Nixon involvements, etc., an interesting fellow to say the least and worth a web search to fully understand just what he is and is involved in today.

TFR

Piercing the Darkness podcast

Over the past few years I have subscribed to a podcast called Piercing the Darkness. by Derek and Sharon Gilbert.

This couple put out a half hour to hour podcasts covering various issues with as they term it a "Christian perspective". Now ordinarily this is seemingly harmless and would appeal to folks who are Christian and occasionally others who listen to what another is saying even thought their personal beleifs might differ.

Well if you happen to catch any of these long enough and that would be exactly a single episode and if you aren't some brainwashed mind controlled fundie or evangelicalista the reporting and facts become quite clear they are simply inventing them as they need to support their stories.

The most humorous interviews are those that feature folks like fundie whack jobs Russ Dizdar and Patrick Herron. These two are especially disconnected from reality in that they make the most outrageous claims and then spout dark ages based reliance that would have even the worst Inquisition member stand up and scream BS! There are others but these suffice to illustrate the ignorance and stupidity inherent in this podcast.

The Gilberts for quite some time even had a Forum ( they turned it over to another person under their control) and invited listeners to comment claiming the entire time to be for factual and truthful discussion. Well that all sounds good until you get to the part of factual and truthful and that is where the whole thing dissolves into conflict with their fundie beliefs. It results in suspending anyone and then blocking them from commenting where the person commenting is able to support their arguments and opinions and the Gilberts being found to have gone as far as fabricating their facts and on several occasions been caught lying only to be proved liars and then trying to cover it up!

So remember when listening to those "Christian" podcasts you have to make sure they are True Christians that actually follow the teaching of Christianity and not like Derek and Sharon Gilbert who can't handle the truth and run away to avoid further emabarassment from those who can argue and back up their comments, unlike those Gilberts who have to invent their stories and then when caught can't hang.

So for a good laugh go to the forum and let them know that True Christians don't lie and then hide they hang in there and deal with reality like normal people.

Do keep in mind that if you happen to register on their forum and are capable of putting forth arguments that they don't agree with and unable to refute, you will be suspended and barred from posting on it.

TFR

In Response to Chuck Colson's Anti- Same Sex Marriage column

It seems that Chuck Colson head of that ole Prison Ministries group has written a couple of articles against same sex marriage and doesn't understand the issues nor the Constitutional Rights he continues to banter on about losing due to the "gay agenda". Were he to do some actual reading he could learn ( I am giving him the benefit of the doubt here) that his claims of violation of the 1st Amendment are simply not true, in fact he doesn't even understand that in order for this particular right to be violated it must be via the Federal Government action an dnot those of private citizens.

The following is from a post to his article reprinted at Christian Post found here:
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090619/gay-activists-and-religious-freedom/index.html

My responses are here:

IT is a real shame that Chuck Colson doesn't understand the 1st Amendment. He has absolutely no concept of Equal Rights nor does he even intend to educate himself about it.

He is another in a long line of self proclaimed activists to prevent equality and to continue the ignorance about a issue while at the same time promoting the hate filled stance of defending an effort that has no viable secular argument. He forgets that this is not an issue of religious rights being stopped, it is an equal rights issue attacked by those who want to force others to abide by their religious ideology.

Lets see an article by Chuck Colson that illustrates the issues where he step by step covers the secular laws and shows that he can produce secular arguments to support his position. I already did this on several forums and not one secular argument in support of his position was ever given.

The complaints from the religious side are simply not valid as they force others to comply with their ideology and practices of belief and nowhere in those promulgating this attack have any of them ever produced any proof of what they say is true. They don't produce any facts or even show how enforcement of equal rights prevent them from practicing their religious is infringed.

So how does same sex marriage infringe on their 1st Amendment rights? Does it stop them from gathering in their churches? NO! Does it stop them from spreading the same rhetoric in their prayer meetings? NO! Does it prevent them from constantly misstating the facts and misrepresenting the law to others? NO!

So what does same sex marriage do to them? It is quite simple, they don't get to call the shots on others who don't believe as they do. It allows people to be treated equally and that is something those like Chuck Colson can't stand and has to continue to whine about since he and the others like him don't have any real valid reasons against same sex marriage they resort to pretending there is and people who don't think and investigate their claims continue to give them support no matter how wrong they are.

Christians are required to speak the truth, so where is the truth with people like Chuck Colson? Somewhere somehow along the way he must have violated his religious beliefs as they don't support this conduct by him and the others like him, because if they did tell the truth they would have to admit they haven't an argument and they simply want the rest of the world to think, act and do as they do with complete disregard for the truth. So are you a True Christian or a Chuck Colson type of Christian?

Only you can decide to follow Christianity as it is meant to be followed or be a Chuck Colson type of Christian who discards the tenants when it suits them.

And ....

Since I am limited to 3,000 characters I needed to continue in a separate post.

Chuck Colson has stated that his 1st Amendment Rights are being violated by gay activists so lets look at what he claims and find out if it is true or not.

The 1st Amendment restricts the FEDERAL Government from infringing on religious worship AND covers free speech to list two main components of the amendment. Chuck Colson says that his rights are being violated so how are they being violated but doesn't give any evidence of how his rights are violated by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!

So Chuck Colson, has the Federal Government stopped you from worshiping? NO! Has the FEDERAL Government stopped you from telling others in your church from attending? NO! Has the Federal Government stopped you from believing the religious ideology that you claim to believe? NO!

Has the Federal Government infringed on your ability to post these articles about your position no matter how wrong you are on the subject? NO!

So, Chuck Colson, how are YOUR 1st Amendment Rights being violated by the Federal Government when nothing that would be a violation has taken place?

The simple answer is that Chuck Colson's 1st Amendment Rights have not nor are they going to be violated by same sex marriage. The only effect same sex marriage will have if anything to Chuck Colson is that those people who become recognized will have equality and due to Chuck Colson's religious views he can't allow that to happen.

By the way, Chuck Colson has no problem violating the Rights of same sex couples by having the Federal Government continue to enforce DOMA, as it violates the EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE of the US Constitution!

Funny Chuck Colson seems to know about violations of Constitutional Rights but doesn't know about Equal Protection?

So Chuck Colson care to address my posts and defend your position? He probably won't as he knows he wouldn't win the argument and I have already eliminated any he could bring up.

The interesting fact is that none of the people who think as Chuck Colson does have EVER put forth one valid secular argument and refrained from mentioning their religious beliefs. It would be a refreshing change to have one of those bigoted individuals actually try to argue the issues from a reality point of view and leave their religion for the time it took to comnpose it.

I wonder if it is even possible for those evangelicalistas to even go through an hour let alone a full day where they deal with reality and are capable of thinking outside their programming? I have tried to discuss this rationally and civilly on various Forums where the major agenda there is to push, thump and hammer Funde thought into everyone and it hasn't proved possible either although they constantly make claims that they are so accepting and willing to dialog with anyone. Take a look at my responses there and the other boards I post on and see how manyof my posts are deleted and/or marked inappropriate simply because the truth and facts are simply too much for them to bear and since they can't refute my arguments they resort to deleting, suspensions and out right banning of my accounts.

Now the supporters of Colson's beliefs are free to condemn, name call, invent facts, even outright lie and nothing is done to them, but let someone like me come along and when they aren't capable of winning the argument they just can't ahndle it and play petty little games.

Isn't it strange that they will ask and even try to infest forums to proselytize but you can't even write the truth on their forums because they will not let you. They will refuse to debate anyone like me when they don't have completel control of the media be it a forum, podcast or even television but will spout lie after lie as long as they control the venue and not allow anyone to appear or have airtime to take the opposite position.

Funny isn't it they claim that their 1st Amendments Rights are being violated but have no problem violating the rights of others! I sincerely hope that the Fairness Doctrine is brought back so they won't be able to run and hide and notice how opposed they are to it's reinactment, they claim to speak the truth so why would you be so afraid of fairness and accuracy in reporting?

The reason is clear, if the Fairness Doctrine is brought back they will have to actually report the truth and have to present both sides of the issue without bias and that will lead to the end of their ability to lie and get away with it!

TFR

Fundies are leaving in massive numbers!!

A very real argument for avoiding the church in its entirety and that is simply that those who avoid it simply aren't buying the story any longer. The vast amount of people who jumped in have awakened to the fact that the fundie message has no validity nor anything to offer anyone to begin with.

The American population has finally become aware of the problem inherent in the fantasy of believing a system that offers nothing to them really and simply holds them back from being happy without having to live daily with the constant doom and gloom that is the very core of
the fundamentalist ideology.

People don't need to be scared into religious belief and they have recognized the stupidity of accepting such a ridiculous conclusion and even more so the ignorance that is rampant within the leadership and their promotion of ignorance as a religious observance.

Rejoice in the fact that the mass movement from those groups signal the coming end of hatred and bigoted pulpit puppets from being able to infect others to fuel hatred which is not a core concept of TRUE CHRISTIANITY and never was.

I applaud those who are leaving in droves from the fascist, racist, and evil bodies that exist as institutions of religion when they are nothing more than a pit of evil and nothing to do with Christianity and never were.

TFR

Evangelistas love to omit facts when reporting a story

Evangelistas or Fundamentalist/Evangelicals if you prefer a more spelled out description of the category of people who continue to rant and rave on their religious leanings on the nonstop effort constantly complaining about how they are victims.

The problem is quite simple in order to be taken seriously you must first cover the whole of an issue when reporting the issues, whereas the common approach from the evangelistas is to selectively report and/or to omit the portion of the true fact pattern which contradicts and disproves their position.

Any normal person reading the evangelista posting simply has to read the numerous accounts from believeable sources which is exactly where the evangelista took it from originally and then creatively edited the story so that it better fit their agenda. Next when challenged for this deceitful conduct their next move is to play victim for being attacked and then attempt to hide behind some fantasy concept they call 1st Amendment rights, something they neither know fully or even worse fail to understand its coverage and applications.

It would be humorous if it weren't for the fact that they have a disinformation campaign ongoing and affect the actual lives of millions of fellow believers who will due to their brain washing will be unable to know that they don't have the whole story but in addition will continue to spread the inaccurate and incorrect material to others who will in turn accpet it unconditionally and not give it the necessary attention to investigate the facts to insure they have the whole story.

The ignorance and stupidity is only compounded by the continuance of this pattern and then they return to their churches and are praised for following the pulpit puppet agenda and to do so blindly and without hesitating one second to check if their lifestyle might be preventing them form being part of reality and then when the information is shown that their own conduct resulted in them being found ignorant and stupid they whine. So they next begin the victim routine hoping for sympathy from folks not under the mind control and when they don't get the hoped for result they simply go back to the methodology that got them there in the first palce, never learning what caused it or taking the necessary steps to correct their behavior to stop the continuance of their own causing.

The cure is to remove the brain washing and to resist the mind control so they can recognize reality from fantasy anf then won't need to continue this game any longer. A True Christian does not follow the Fundamentalist/Evangelical route as their fascist core has no place calling itself a religion let alone Christian.

TFR

Anti-Abortionist Blog Illustrates Fundamentalist Mind Control

This story illustrates the fact of how mindless and brainwashed fundies really are! They just jump in and don't investigate the situation!

The evangelical portion of society is so indoctrinated that it has lost the ability to think independently of their programming which has removed that ability.

This should be a wake up call to everyone in America that the control of the will of those involved in Fundamentalism is a serious problem and that it must be addressed to help these people recover their senses.

All it takes is for a pulpit puppet to speak and the knee jerk reactions happen! Their strings are too easily manipulated by a very few people in control of the masses of mind controlled members.

When are the rest of the lemmings going to wake up to this dangerous condition and correct it before they are called upon to do something even more extreme such as armed revolution or attacks on the public to carry out the fascist agenda at the very core of this baseless group of people unable to recognize what has happened to them and the need to correct the condition so they can become TRUE CHRISTIANS and not just puppets of a fascist dictatorship under the guise of religion.

TFR

Secular Truth vs Religious Bigotry!!!

A few months ago on "Piercing the Darkness", a pro christian forum, I handled a discussion about the secular reasons agaisnt Same Sex Marriage, and not one, I REPEAT NOT ONE VALID, SECULAR argument was given to prevent it!

The entire issue boiled down to purely religiously based reasons and the complete ignorance of those against same sex unions being called marriage. The institution of marriage is that of recognition by the secular state and not anything to do with the religious attachment. Following this and other arguments which caused the administrators of the site to become so frustrated with their inability to either refute or even pick apart my supported arguments, the account was suspended. It is plain to anyone who read my posts, that the lack of logic on the part of Fundamentalist/Evangelicals was too much to admit and be faced with having to read that lead to the suspension. Derek Gilbert who is the real administrator and hides behind Daniel Eaton weren't able to handle the truth of the matter and serve only to further illustrate the complete awareness of reality interfering with their religious beliefs.This is inherent in most if not all of similar thinking held among those individuals as they are forced through mental conditioning to resist any reality based thinking and/or fact based basis to form opinions and rely essentially upon what they are ordered to do from the pulpit puppet of their particular church.

TFR

Another Fundie Breaks their Word

Carrie Prejean was recently dethroned form her Miss California title for breaching her contract and thereby was relieved of her title for doing so.

When Prejean entered the contest she agreed to abide by the terms of the contest knowing full well she would have to make appearances and to act in accordance with the terms that all the past holders of the title have done. In her case she simply used the title to further the agenda of the religious right and to ignore her duties and then soapboxed the agenda of the religious right while whining during her media interviews.

She was given a pass earlier when they should have kicked her to the curb, but instead gave her a chance to meet the terms of the agreement but instead she continued on her reincarnated Anita Bryant campaign to further the goals of the same said agenda.

She has nothing to complain about period. She has to understand that when you sign a contract, especially with her past experience you have to meet the conditions of said contract and that if you didn't intend to do so then you induced the other party fraudulently to honor their end of the contract.

The best way to handle the situation with Prejean is to stop giving her a venue in which she can continue to soapbox for the religious right and to incorrectly state that her discharge was anything but breach, but the media will continue to let this pulpit puppet to rant, whine and complain as long as viewers and listeners will give an ear and eye to the coverage. If you want to stop bigoted commentary then is would be simple enough to just forgo any additional time to her.

It is solely due to her continued complaints about her mistaken interpretations of Constitutional Rights and how glaringly wrong she is about them. One would think with all the people pushing the agenda could at least give her correct legal advice and that way she could at least make the appearance of being informed about reality and not remove any doubt by speaking.

As long as the media grants space the bigots will continue to rant, influence ignorant and uninformed people whose only source of law and civil rights come from their local clergy and the members of their churches. It is past time for allowing ignorance and stupidity to flourish among the people and to finally educate those who live in a fantasy world governed by the particular bible they are read to by their clergy and to have to actually recognize that reality is something that exists and that fantasy is simply that.

The American public simply must recognize that it is long past time to act to put an end to religious ideology being forced upon us and to help those poor deluded people to get the help to recover form the brainwashing that is taking place in those so called places of worship and for people who call themselves Christian to act and practice Christianity as a true Christian.

TFR

Are Mind Controlled Fundamentalists & Evangelical Christians Committing Crimes?

There have been a large number of religiously motivated crimes committed in the past few years and those crimes are largely due to people acting out their religious beliefs by either hurting, maiming or even killing others of different religious denominations and/or children to young to fight back and defend themselves.

It is horrific to talk about but it seems that you can't discuss this on Forums as those who claim to be Christian are either unable to realize this is now a serious matter and there needs to be investigation into the actions or that the users are simply refusing to accept reality and continue to deny the problem even exists.

Recently, I brought up this topic and posted evidence to back up this position only to find out that many simply refused to accept the proof from a newspaper article or even the Court Documents. They continued to deny that the "Killer who got life without parole" for attacking Unitarian Universalist Congregation during a church service, acted to kill those present for being un-Christian and un-American!

The pastor of his church had commented upon (this killer) mental instability and yet did nothing to prevent him from acting on the ideas he had formulated as a result of sermons he heard from the pastor interviewed. Now, that pastor knew what this person intended to do and did absolutely nothing to alert authorities or anyone else but just stood by and said nothing. The media has had little coverage beyond just basic reporting of this event and related events like the mother who hacked her children up to save them from demons, or the botched exorcisms by grossly overweight clergy who smothered a little child to death.

How many more people have to be hurt or killed before the churches that are planting these ideas in people are investigated and the individuals causing the problem dealt with legally and with the necessary severity to put an end to this type of hatred spreading dogma that is becoming more and more the norm?

Apparently a person can't discuss a topic of this nature with anyone from a Fundamentalist or Evangelical Forum as they seem to be in complete and utter denial about what is being taught to them and especially their children at Jesus Camps.

One only has to look at what was contained in the documentary of the same name then compare it to past films from the Hitler Youth movement to see the evidence that the fascist techniques are being employed to condition a new generation of recruits and they will be fully programmed to carry out the will of those in charge. If there is a NWO it is not from the secret societies, it is from the Fundamentalist and Evangelicals who are training converts to act and enforce the dogma and doctrines of their leaders.

What better way to divert the attention of the public then to yell often and loudly to look the other way while they build their ranks from unsuspecting people thinking and being duped into believing their are following Jesus, when it is just Fascism disguised as religion. Hitler did exactly the same thing in 1930's Germany and it happening again in America in the 21st Century with the public ignoring the proof right before their eyes.

Look at the facts and determine for yourself if you still have the ability to see it, if you can't recognize the evidence then you are not being objective and simply allowing the 4th Reich to reappear.

This may be shocking to some readers but it is not too late to take back your religion from those who would have you follow the course of evil.

LINKS:

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1307170

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/feb/09/knoxville-church-shooter-was-hate-crime/

http://www.knoxnews.com/photos/galleries/2008/jul/30/073008churchgal/

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000451.html

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2006/07/yates_not_guilt.html

TFR

Reality

The tough part of reality is having to deal from a perspective that requires acceptance of hard facts and those facts are strictly governed by scientific rules not those from a fantasy belief.