Is America a "christian nation"?

Concerning the separation of church and state in 1802, Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter replying to the Danbury Baptist. In the letter he stated

“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration of Independence, gave a clear concise response with regard to an inquiry as to America's status as a "christian nation" and made sure that it was understood it was not.

In the case from 1892, Holy Trinity Church v. The United States of America was a case about immigration, not religion. The facts dealt with an immigration issue and not a strictly religious one.

For proponents to make this into something it is not and then say it decided without any doubt that America is a "christian nation", only means that those who hold to this ridiculous assertion has again practiced a major fundie/evangelical tactic of taking something out of context and then spinning it into something completely different than it originally was intended to mean and extrapolate it into something else entirely.

Desperate fundies seeking to bolster there revisionist historical claims are nothing but a joke to everyone who actually has studied history and can comprehend it. To attempt to even massage or offer such a statement clearly illustrates the ignorance and stupidity of this sect of brainwashed imbiciles, who like lemmings will blindly accept anything from their pudits as long as it purports to furhter their forced takeover of America and to mak eeveryone follow the rest of the herd to their repeated ranting form a book that can't even reconcile it's own contradictions, let alone offer more than just suspect stories that aren't even supportable via it's followers.

Even the sects attorneys somehow fall victim to this habit of failing to recognize fact from fantasy although they suposededly spent years in school and trianign their minds to be capable of doing that.

The bottom line as always is when any fundie/evangelical speaks, writes, or even communicates, one must immediately question their veracity and make them produce their supporting evidence and especially the SECULAR evidence which undoubtly will instantly refute anything they have said that supports their content of some historical reference to "christian nation" hogwash.

Always make them put up and then show them so they can shut up. Only by a concert of effort will Ameirca be returned to it's original intenet and that is a complete separation of church and state and undo the damage already done to it's citizens.

TFR

Horrifying Story of Failure of Prayer

Follow the link to hear about the complete ignorance and stupidity of parents who let their daughter die of diabetes and didn't do anything medically to save her and the simple act of taking her to a doctor or a hospital to save her life but instead let her die on EASTER!!!

http://cdn4.libsyn.com/ffrf/FTradio_162_053009.mp3?nvb=20090712053121&nva=20090713054121&t=04c76f2abd2e5c2706e8d


This Podcast will sicken you to no end over what these people did to this poor girl who needed medical assistance to deal with her diabetes and her parents, siblings and others who knew about her condition just prayed.

This practice lead to the mother being convicted of murder and rightly so. This is one of the most horrifying stories of allowing a person to die from neglect especially when her condition could have been corrected by proper medical care.

Obviously people like this mother should be jailed and their children who are in serious danger from her and others like her must be investigated and the proper authorities take the action necessary to remove and protect the children and to help them to receive the psychiatric treatment to remove the programming and take the steps to stop this deadly belief system from further infecting this country to prevent any other children from being harmed or killed.

Any belief system forced upon children should be investigated to minimize the effects and to insure that the children are kept safe from the brain washing that caused this and other deaths to people for neglecting the medical care they need to cure them not only from immediate medical emergencies but to remove the devastating effects of limiting the person's available remedies to prayer which has never been proven to have any effect let alone changing even the mental attitude of anyone engaging in this practice.

Comments are invited from responsible people who can think independently from brainwashed mind numbing ideologies that follow this fascist agenda.

TFR

Evangelical and Fundamentalist Churches are losing the Youth Members

Recent articles about the vast amount of younger members leaving the evangelical/fundamentalist churches in amazing numbers.

Ken Ham, a evangelical creationist spends a great deal of time whining about how he is unable to convince people that his belief in creationism should be theirs and simply can't understand that his religious beliefs are not science. Ham has difficulty in grasping the simple fact that people no longer blindly accept his stupid and very ignorant position that has already been tested on every possible level and even lost in a Court of Law with the leading "scientists" of his ilk having ample time to put forth every argument they could and lost.

Creationism is not science, his brand of religion goes against the very teachings of the original ideology and even prevents and prohibits it's members from exercising original thinking that contradicts his ideology. In fact one needs only to argue a point with one like Ham and once that person is seeming to come around to logic and actual facts another will cquickly jump in and cause the mind control buzz words to make them snap back into the brainwashed blankness that permeates the evangelical/fundamentalist brand of so-called religion.

No wonder people and not just the young have no use for it, with politicians violating core ideology while proclaiming that others must adhere showing everyone it is do as I say , not as I do mentality among even the most recognized membership. The utter ignorance and stupidity is so blatant that it no longer needs anyone to point it out but for anyone to just watch and listen as it will only be a short time until examples from the fundamental/evangelical movement gives one and most likely several. The sad part of it is that they will do so and most likely be unaware they did, then continue claiming to be victims for people alerting them to their actions.

When will this group finally be investigated to protect the children form abuse and the mental anguish that is demonstrated so often by the examples paraded across the tv screen with mothers hacking their kids to pieces to save them from perceived demons and devils, to sunday school teachers who drug, molest, rape and kill children then pretend that it was ordained by their god.

The actions of those people are not of Christianity, nor are they even close or remotely connected to anything that was, is or will be True Christianity. The movement has imploded, it is a disaster, it is resorted fascist terrorism and will continue until the cult behavior is investigated and determined to be not religious but simply the next phase of fascism and thereby able to be stopped, stopped via only legal methods, no violence, no headlines, just simply provide the help these people need and should be given to help them to recover from this bad reliance upon the fascist agenda and not religion.

TFR

The Truth about the Bible

It is well passed time for someone to point out the truth about the Bible and to put an end to this evangelical/fundamentalist propaganda that it is the incontravertible word of God.

First of all there are hundreds of versions of the book commonly called the Bible and not one single version is the authoritative text, nor can any group make valid claims that it is.

There are far too many contradictions in each of the various texts to reconcile the differences and to make any claims that it is something beyond a book that may be based upon historical events and yet it has never been nor will it ever be more than an historical novel containing morality stories written by men to record the stories in an attempt to preserve the cultural myths of the people it stemmed from originally. Putting out a different version or even interpretation and making assertions that one person said something when there is absolutely no proof from the secular world that proves existence of an individual called "Jesus" or that he ever said a single word if, indeed he did exist and since not one shred of evidence for valid secular sources exist that speaks to the claimed miracles and other supernatural events that should exist if the events actually happened.

The ONLY evidence that can be looked at has already been proved to be simply inserted by religious zealots who wanted to somehow validate their beliefs which did one thing and that was to help preserve the writings of Josephus, but now have been shown to be forgeries and therefore leaving nothing for those who create revisionist historical accounts can now stop since they have nothing and to continue is a violation of the very Commandments they tout daily for the rest of America to follow.

It is well past time for Americans to listen to politicians who violate the law, and the codes of their claimed faiths to remain in office and they especially should be removed immediately to prove that those belonging to the fundie ideology actually mean what they claim and to stop giving lip service alone to keep those violators in power as it only serves to illustrate and demonstrate to everyone that their rules have no merit nor need to be abided by.

The shear numbers of religious sites alone should illustrate to everyone that this is nothing more than a group determined to force conversion on the world and they are after Americans via unconstitutional laws, hate crimes and complete reluctance and blockage of every possible effort to restore America to the Constitutional Secular Country it was intended to be and not the fascist state that the remaining members of the fundies strive to force upon us.

It certainly is well past time to allow this type of fascist takeover to continue. Remember to vote for candidates who are NOT a follower of the fundamentalist/evangelical organizations. Remember that your Civil Rights are always at stake and to only vote in those who will uphold them. Remember to allow these fascists to continue and remain silent is to enable them to hold on and remain a threat to your rights, your beliefs and that the people of Germany were guilty of sitting by when the same thing happened in Germany and allowed the fascist there to take control, don't let the fascists fundies do that here.

TFR

England Makes Fundies Treat LGBT Community with Equality

The following article is found at this link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5357247/Law-will-force-churches-to-employ-gay-staff.html

England has dealt with the rampant discrimination ongoing in churches against the LBGT community. If America were to take a similar step the LGBT discrimination issue would be further reduced and thus enable those promoting the hate to finally have to interact with people and it would assist them to adapt to acceptance of the LGBT community.

Churches will be banned from turning down gay job applicants on the grounds of their sexuality under new anti-discrimination laws, a Government minister said.

By Matthew Moore -Published: 7:00AM BST 21 May 2009

Religious groups are to be forced to accept homosexual youth workers, secretaries and other staff, even if their faith holds same-sex relationships to be sinful.

Christian organisations fear that the tightened legislation, which is due to come into force next year, will undermine the integrity of churches and dilute their moral message.

It comes amid growing concern that Christians are being unfairly targeted by discrimination laws, following a number of high-profile cases of courts finding against believers who stand up for their faith.

Religious leaders had hoped to lobby for exemptions to the Equality Bill but Maria Eagle, the deputy equalities minister, has now indicated that it will cover almost all church employees.

"The circumstances in which religious institutions can practice anything less than full equality are few and far between," she told delegates at the Faith, Homophobia, Transphobia, & Human Rights conference in London.

"While the state would not intervene in narrowly ritual or doctrinal matters within faith groups, these communities cannot claim that everything they run is outside the scope of anti-discrimination law.

"Members of faith groups have a role in making the argument in their own communities for greater LGBT acceptance, but in the meantime the state has a duty to protect people from unfair treatment."

Under existing equalities legislation, any roles deemed to be necessary "for the purposes of an organised religion" are excluded from gay rights protection.

But the Equality Bill, which is currently passing through parliament, for the first time defines this as applying only to those who lead the liturgy or spend the majority of the time teaching doctrine - essentially just ministers, bishops and their equivalents in other faiths.

A spokesman for the Christian Institute, a religious charity, said that many churchgoers had deep concerns about how the bill would be enforced and accused politicians of hypocrisy.

"It would be absurd to pass a law demanding that the Labour Party employ card-carrying Conservative members, but that is effectively what churches are being told to do. We just want the same exceptions as political parties," he said.

"Christians are sick to the back teeth of equality and diversity laws that put them to the back of the queue. We are quite prepared to accept that people will take a different view to use on moral and ethical questions, but that should not mean we have to withdraw from public life."

Recent cases including the nurse suspended for offering to pray for a patient and the British Airways worker sent home for wearing a visible cross have left many believers afraid to go public with their faith at work.

Neil Addison, a Roman Catholic barrister and expert on religious discrimination law, said that the new legislation would leave churches powerless to defend the fabric of their organisation.

"This is a threat to religious identity. What we are losing is the right for organisations to make free choices," he said.

A spokesman for the Church of England said that while it supports the broad objectives of the Bill it "retains some concerns about the practical application of some specific aspects".

The Equality Bill, which was introduced to the Commons by Harriet Harman, the Minister for Women and Equality, will also strengthen laws against gender, age and disability discrimination.

A Government Equalities Office spokesman said: "The Equality Bill will not force a church to accept someone as a priest regardless of their sexual orientation or gender.

"Churches, synagogues, mosques and others will continue to have the freedom to choose who they employ in jobs which promote their religion. But where they provide services to the public they will have to treat everyone fairly.

Related Articles

• Unions lose court plea over gays and church jobs

• Euro rules force Church bodies to employ atheists

• Employers face new discrimination headache

• Gay man wins Church discrimination case

• Gay youth worker accuses bishop of discrimination after failing to get job

States Rights and the Religious Connection

Alockslee »

Suddenly we have a whole slew of evangelicals becoming Constitutional scholars, unfortunately they don't comprehend nor understand their interpretations and get it wrong.

The recent movement and call for States rights have folks like Texas Governor calling for treasonous action of Succession and the Civil War was fought and those Successionist States LOST. This is nothing more than another Fundamentalist/Evangelical movement to force religion under the guise of a political stance.

The reason the US is experiencing the economic collapse is due to the last 8 years under Bush and the fundie controlled Congress. The period saw deregulation and complete disregard for the rights of anyone who wasn't of the same religion as those in power. Now the remaining folks continue to prevent the changes necessary to fix what was done by the Evil Agent Evangelical Bush and his cronies.

Torturing people didn't get it done, nor will the continuing push for forced conversion by the remaining pulpit puppets in Washington. Those during the Bush era tried to force religion down Americans throats and the American population didn't swallow it, in fact they vomited it back on them and now the religious legislators stand covered in the vile bile they heaped out and now have to wear, exposed for their actions.

Face it separation of church and state is how this country became great and not by forced compliance with religious hate.

It is well past the time where Americans should have acted to remove these denizens of the fascist fundie groups and finally rid this country of them by vote. There needs to be a return to truth in broadcasting since that will compel the fundies to report the whole story and not get away with spinning it to their perverted ideology via Glen Beck, Bill OReilly and Sean Hanity on Fixed Fox News!

Until Americans take responsibility for making the religious right comply with telling the truth there won't be any and those on Capitol Hill will continue to thwart the efforts to return us to solvency.

Remember you can't expect mind controlled fundies to act responsibly since they only follow th e lemming approach of what the pulpit puppet in their local fascist gathering is telling them to do.

TFR